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Every once in a while I catch my wife telling little white lies. I don't like it but for the most part I've been ignoring them. Usually because they are so small.

Today she told one that im not sure falls into the realm of white lies any longer.

She was recording a podcast with someone who was interviewing her about her profession. She told them that she had been in this profession for ten years, and had a specific specialty for 3 years.

Often she will fudge these amounts of time a little because one can define "begin" in different ways, and it was small differences.

But in this case it was a flat out lie. She has only been in this profession for 5 years max, and had this specialty for barely two of those five.

Now there is no legal requirement for her to be honest about these times, but it is a red flag for me that she lied this much this time.

Im trying to decide if its worth saying something, or if I should just let it go and observe her.

I can understand why this hit you the way it did. For a lot of us who’ve done the work, the "little" lies were never actually little, they were symptoms of a deeper pattern. And when you’ve lived through betrayal, even a small distortion of the truth can make the alarm bells go off. It’s not about the years she claimed. It’s about what it signals.

From my own experience, the shift didn’t happen until I stopped making exceptions for myself. No white lies, no rounding up, no close enough. I had to treat every distortion as information about where I still wasn’t aligned. That’s why I hear your concern here. It’s not the resume detail, It’s the mismatch between her words and her actions, and that’s what you’re reacting to.

Whether you bring it up or observe for a bit depends on what you’re trying to understand. If you’re looking for a pattern, watching can tell you a lot (seems like you're already seeing the pattern). If you’re looking for clarity, a direct conversation can do that too (this would be my choice). What matters is that you don’t gaslight yourself into thinking it’s nothing. It’s something, maybe small, maybe not, but still something.

...it is a red flag for me...

I'm sure it is. You can always ask her why she does it? No need to accuse or chastise. "Honey, I'm curious. Why lie about that?"

Do you think this is a white lie? I don't. If I were a client, employer, or colleague thinking about bringing your wife into a project; this would change my mind. She is lying to double her experience.

My WH used to be a bit of a braggard about his qualifications. It might have fallen into the exaggeration category. We owned a tech business together, and I never understood the purpose of doing that. It was annoying and unhelpful to our business in my mind.

He's the opposite now after the infidelity. It's a quiet confidence. That was an intentional change for him. His encore career is in a trade, licensed and bonded, that he always had an interest. Maybe with a stretch, his PhD relates a little. The overwhelming majority of his clients don't know he has a PhD in engineering or that we had a software company that we sold.

I think of white lies as something different. I guess we are nearly 10 years out now. I struggled much more than he did over white lies after infidelity. I had a very difficult time becoming vulnerable again. It wasn't a problem for me before the infidelity.

My WH resolved to eliminate any lies after infidelity, including openly lying or lies of omission or not being open with his feelings. He did that with almost everyone. I don't remember if it was something said here, reading books, individual therapy, or me saying I would not tolerate any untruth.

White lies to me after infidelity were things like him asking me how I spent my day, and me saying, "Oh you know. I was at work. Whatever project." Yes, I was at work. Maybe I spent an hour crying, another hour looking at phone records, one on surviving infidelity. I just didn't trust to say any of that to him.

Maybe it's hypocritical. If I thought my former WH was lying or not being truthful, I would not say anything to him. I would investigate. If I found something, I would get my financial position straight to be in my favor; and I would divorce. He knows that. It's our agreement. I hate it, but I don't know how else to do this.

White lies that we have eliminated are about small feelings. If I were to ask him if he minds stopping by the store for something, he will tell me if he does. He will ask how important it is to me. I'm the same now. I might forget something he wanted in the store and remember in the parking lot. I'll call or text to ask if it's important. It makes it easier for each of us to ask. Before I might have said I forgot, but I mean I didn't forget at a point where I couldn't go back.

I would have an issue with it. Well, maybe not an "issue" as in make a big deal out of it, but I'd question my wife and ask her why she stretched the truth like that. Maybe say something like "I thought you were committing to radical honesty?"

My wife has been doing just that. With everyone about everything, and it's such a noticeable change. It would eat at me if she fibbed about something now. Even if it was small. I wouldn't make a huge deal out of it, but I'd definitely bring it up and let her know it bothered me.

[This message edited by Pogre at 8:41 PM, Monday, June 29th]

This strikes me as a major lie about relevant qualification and expertise. As you called it: "a flat out lie".

Your wife should know that you don't really appreciate deception.

I think under the context you have detached for a given period of time, agreeing not to guide her but letting her sink or swim, I would neither confront or ignore.

I also think that detachment is making you more objective in what you are seeing and you are less likely to brush this or other things under the rug.

I don’t mean this as you should do a gotcha.

It’s that if she truly wants to be a safe person and lead her life with the type of integrity it requires moving forward then at some point she needs to be able to recognize this as an issue that she wants to change and not one she should simply sequester to keep her marriage.

My vote is to continue to observe. Reassess the significance of this in the larger scope of her behavior modifications and work over the next four months.

Not a good sign though. But it can be weighed against other progress and then laid down as a boundary should you wish to extend the period. We have a rule in our marriage of no lying at all and it works for us. But that was something we both wanted. That’s the nature of reconciliation- you need to align in the important things and you can’t just keep leading her by the leash of what that is going to be.

Part of detachment is letting go of control of the other person and seeing how they decide to conduct themselves. Given she hasn’t even asked any questions about your letter to even try to make sure she understands all this makes me think she is using this as "great the pressure is off" instead of leaning in to say "what does this mean?".

You are getting answers and clarity just maybe not in the direction that you had maybe hoped.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:43 PM, Tuesday, June 30th]

Unhinged

I'm sure it is. You can always ask her why she does it? No need to accuse or chastise.

Unfortunately I think even me bringing it up is going to make her feel accused even if I do it well. She is hyper sensitive about anything that even smells like criticism from me. This is a major part of the reason I am stepping back from discussing the relationship for a while. I think the constant stress is causing hyper vigilance and causing this hyper sensitivity.
KitchenDepth5551

Do you think this is a white lie? I don't. If I were a client, employer, or colleague thinking about bringing your wife into a project; this would change my mind. She is lying to double her experience.

I agree with you on this. It's why it bothers me so much.

White lies to me after infidelity were things like him asking me how I spent my day, and me saying, "Oh you know. I was at work. Whatever project." Yes, I was at work. Maybe I spent an hour crying, another hour looking at phone records, one on surviving infidelity. I just didn't trust to say any of that to him.

I struggle with this as well. I have a hard time exposing my inner struggles to someone who seems so fragile all the time.
Pogre

My wife has been doing just that. With everyone about everything, and it's such a noticeable change.

Part of why this bothers me so much is I noticed her growing to be more and more honest with people, including me. She would take more responsibility for her small mistakes, and generally tell the truth with the exception of genuine white lies. This is a back slide for sure.

The things I mentioned in my other thread "Frustrated and confused" seemed to be getting better slowly over time along with her being more honest and taking more accountability for small things. Her resentment seemed to be getting better. Then one therapy session it all switched and the blaming was back full power, and since then she has told this blatant lie which is something I haven't caught her doing for a long time. Little white lies yes. But genuine white lies, nothing big enough for me to be very concerned about.

I'm not sure whats going on.

She has been spending huge amounts of time trying to build a new business, and it's clearly wearing on her. This Sunday she had a sort of breakdown over it. I believe this stress is the cause of the backsliding. When she gets stressed she kind of goes back to default settings which for her seems to be manipulating people by lying to them.

But now that I've taken the pressure off, it's more obvious that the business she is building is causing this stress not me.

Anyway I'm rambling now.

This0is0Fine

Your wife should know that you don't really appreciate deception.

She knows. I have told her several times that I need to be with someone who is honest.
Part of me wanting to say something is because people like to push boundaries, and see how you react, then if you do nothing they push a little more. I'm worried this is what she is doing. She lied. She knew it was a lie. She knew I was in the room. So maybe she is seeing if I will accept it or not. I don't know. I also don't know if it's one of those semi-automatic things people do, and she is stressed so it just came out. Wasn't pre-meditated. Either could be the case.

As hikingout pointed out, I am purposely taking a step back to watch and see what happens. So either way it's data. And I'm hopeful that she is able to get some clarity with the pressure being off.

It sucks because the pressure doesn't feel like it's off my much for me. I'm still concerned about everything, and concerned with how to best handle things when the four months is up. But thats a topic for another time.

hikingout

I think under the context you have detached for a given period of time, agreeing not to guide her but letting her sink or swim, I would neither confront or ignore.
...
My vote is to continue to observe. Reassess the significance of this in the larger scope of her behavior modifications and work over the next four months.

I agree with this and for now I think I'll wait and see even though it's sometimes hard to do.

Part of detachment is letting go of control of the other person and seeing how they decide to conduct themselves. Given she hasn’t even asked any questions about your letter to even try to make sure she understands all this makes me think she is using this as "great the pressure is off" instead of leaning in to say "what does this mean?".

I think this is exactly what is happening. I'm hopeful that this break will give her some space to notice what is really stressing her and to work on it. Maybe I'm smoking hopium, but either way I will see what happens and be able to choose a direction from there.

I don’t remember who to credit, but I have come to agree with the sentiment that most all infidelity can be explained by the desire to be validated. Sometimes that desire is so great that it feels like a need. It looks like your wife doesn’t think an accurate picture will be enough to gain validation and she is ok using lies to get validated. Is that the crux of your concern? That this is another manifestation of her affair behavior in a different context?

Notsogreatexpectations,

If that's the case, that's on her to figure out for herself. Theevent is supposed to be taking a break from picking apart the infidelity from her side and trying to get her to change.

My vote is to continue to observe. Reassess the significance of this in the larger scope of her behavior modifications and work over the next four months.

This is a major part of the reason I am stepping back from discussing the relationship for a while. I think the constant stress is causing hyper vigilance and causing this hyper sensitivity.

I personally struggle with this still. I'm not saying you should, Theevent. It's my own personal fundamental conundrum in the relationship. I am demanding complete honesty. Yet, if I see something through hyper-vigilance or just casually that seems like an untruth, I won't talk about it. I'll observe and investigate. Then I'm the one lying through omission, right? I don't know how to resolve that. Maybe at some point I'll just get tired of this. Anyway, I'm just sharing my personal struggle with this.

I think you’ll be better off just sticking to your plan to observe and evaluate.

Bring it up out of the blue.

You didn't lie.

Don't let her darvo. If she does, call that out.

"I want to talk about the other day when you exaggerated your experience. Why did you do that?"

Try to have an open conversation about her motivation and why she gave herself permission to lie. And how can she show this isn't a thought pattern she would use with you in terms of cheating again.